The Pros and Cons of Declaring Ourselves to the World

(Some posts compiled from Sanguinarius’s Vampiric Community Message Board, then located on Server.com)

Anonymous
continuation of my earlier posting (declaring..)
Sun Sep 27 09:21:16 1998
The pros and cons of declaring ourselves to the world:

pro 1: we help all those poor, confused people who don’t know they are vampires yet, possibly even preventing a large number of suicides in sleepwalkers.

pro 2: there will be more willing donors.

pro 3: if there are enough of us, we will be able to tell our friends and family what we are without the fear of them thinking we are insane.

pro 4: we will have a chance to explain we are not evil, thus reducing the number misguided hunters out there.

pro 5: less children will be brought up with the belief that we don’t exist.

pro 6: certain sections of human society will learn to respect us.

pro 7: it will be easier to find vampires as companions and soulmates.

pro 8: hunters will also be recognised by society, and more will be arrested, reducing the risk factor of coming out of the closet for future vampires.

pro 9: we will have a chance to prove we are different, and should be allowed to live that way, rather than having to mimic human behavior.

con 1: in the beginning, people will think we are insane.

con 2: the number of hunters will grow.

con 3: some people will pretend to be vampires, and may make false claims which endanger us (it will be up to human society to see through these lies)

con 4: we’d probably need a new name — one which scares people less (like “gay” as opposed to “homosexual”)

In conclusion: A few years of panic and pain will lead to a brighter future. Any comments?


Sasha
Other pros and cons
Sun Sep 27 15:24:15 1998
Ok, I will try to hand in some counterarguments to as much points as I have a handle on. Hope this helps to complete the picture.

“pro 1: we help all those poor, confused people who don’t know they are vampires yet, possibly even preventing a large number of suicides in sleepwalkers.”

Con to pro 1: We might “awaken” a lot of people who are actually no vampires but who desperately seek for a group to belong to. It might be gamers, it might be fiction lovers, it might be any kind of person with a slightly labile psyche. We already have the problem now, this way it could increase.

“pro 2: there will be more willing donors.”

con to pro 2: But also, people might fear that we are out to hunt them in the same way that people still believe that satanists are out to kidnap their children and sacrifice them at midnight on graveyards.

“pro 3: if there are enough of us, we will be able to tell our friends and family what we are without the fear of them thinking we are insane.”

con to pro 3: Human behavior is not predictable. If a family is highly religious and/or has its own view on vampirism, then maybe not. I could never talk about my religious affiliation, despite of the end of the Satanic Panic (at least officially). Concerning my grandmother I could not even admit that I left church.

“pro 4: we will have a chance to explain we are not evil, thus reducing the number misguided hunters out there.”

con to pro 4: No one must believe us. People might do, but they may also think that we are just trying to cover our “real nature” by nice words.

“pro 5: less children will be brought up with the belief that we don’t exist.”

con to pro 5: I remember how cruel children can be, do you?

“pro6: certain sections of human society will learn to respect us.”

con to pro 6: Most social subcultures are still not really accepted, despite their existance for decades already. We might also, more likely, end up as “just another bunch of freaks to joke about”.

“pro 7: it will be easier to find vampires as companions and soulmates.”

con to pro 7: Also, we might wind up with people that just try to fool us. I have met many men who tried to fool me just in terms of getting me into their bed, who can grant us that not some strange people try the same just because “we are so exotic”?

“pro 8: hunters will also be recognised by society, and more will be arrested, reducing the risk factor of coming out of the closet for future vampires.”

con to pro 8: hunters may be replaced by psychiatrists, anti-cult organizations and the police. If not already done.

“pro 9: we will have a chance to prove we are different, and should be allowed to live that way, rather than having to mimic human behavior.”

con to pro 9: People have always feared those who are different. I think no one can grant us acceptance. Being gay is one thing. Being goth or punk is one thing. Being a vampire is another one.

Ok, in addition, I can try to find pros for the mentioned cons.

“con 1: in the beginning, people will think we are insane.”

pro to con 1: Maybe it is better to be considered insane that being considered a spawn of the devil.

“con 2: the number of hunters will grow.”

And they might be arrested also.

“con3: some people will pretend to be vampires, and may make false claims which endanger us (it will be up to human society to see through these lies)”

pro to con 3: If a community is integer, the gamers are possibly the minor problem (but then again, when has human society ever seen through lies? If it could, why does propaganda exist?)

“con 4: we’d probably need a new name — one which scares people less (like “gay” as opposed to “homosexual”)”

pro to con 4: Maybe also the term vampire looses its fascination and the vampire fan community shifts to other fantastic interests like werewolves.

“In conclusion: A few years of panic and pain will lead to a brighter future. Any comments?”

Well, my conclusion would be a different one.

If in those few years some of us are harmed, killed, locked up or anything else, then was this alleged freedom really worth the pain? I personally would not say so, if I wind up in a psychiatry, end up drugged and cracked and see all the other vampires running free and happy. I am an individual, and I do not want to sacrifice my personal freedom to save the freedom of others, especially not, if this freedom is merely hypothetical. Let us not forget about some elementary things:

Being gay has been an accepted form of living culture in some time periods, like ancient Greece. Being slightly different is ok to the majority, but there are nevertheless groups that are not only considered different, but also evil. Among those lycanthropes, vampires, satanists and others of this dark nature. I am not all too sure that “a few years pain” will do it.

I offered pros and cons to all issues because I wanted to point something out. The general attitude of society might be estimated, but how about individual cases? Even if society might accept us after a few years, who can grant me that my mother will still love me, or my friends?

I don’t think time is right for an open stance. It is way too dangerous. We have the fundies against us. We have the churches against us. Psychiatrists reduce vampirism to the “Renfield syndrome”, a self destructive auto-aggressive psychic disturbance which you can become locked up for for years. We have no forespeakers and no solid base to step on in the open.

Think about it carefully. Even if the number of pros (or POSSIBLE pros) outweighs the cons, it is not the number that counts, but the quality. If I had hundred pros, but the only con would be “We might get arrested or killed” then I would not think twice to let the topic go and stay the way I am. After all, I have friends that like me, without knowing that I am a vampire. And I am content with it. I would not be content with losing them all because they think I am a nutcase who kills little animals.

Sasha


franchesska
NEEDED!!!
Mon Sep 28 18:20:52 1998
Many people will be arrested and killed, and many individuals (even those closest to us) will not believe and/or shun us . . .

There are good reasons to go public, and there are good reasons to stay quiet. This is what I think: There are a few wrinkles to iron out before we start considering “coming out of the coffin”:

1. We need to get our own act together. We need to clearly and concisely define what is, and isn’t, a vampire. Yes, I know that this will cause rifts in the vampire community, but if we simply say, “Yes, this is a vampire, but this person doesn’t have ANY of those symptoms, yet s/he is still a vampire”. That just doesn’t cut it. People don’t believe what they can’t understand, but they DEFINITELY don’t believe what they can’t simplify. And if we let the public simplify vampirism on their own, just imagine the idiotic headlines . . .

2. We need to “come out” as much as possible, ONE AT A TIME, with those whom we KNOW would believe us. We need to find our personal friends (not the ones we know via Net or email!) that have the symptoms, and that would believe, and if they are vamps themselves, help them to become aware. A little at a time is all it takes to make a mammoth transition easier.

3. We need to grow up. Those of you who are teenagers, wait until you are older to state your case! I can almost guarantee that you will not be taken seriously!

4. We need to write. To (SERIOUS!) magazines, even those who would not take us seriously, and tell them of our plight. Enough writing would make at least SOME important people sit up and take notice.

5. We need to wait. But we also need to work.

Anyone out there have anything to add to this?

Doc


Amy Krieytaz
To franchesska: definitions and public relations
Tue Sep 29 23:46:19 1998
franchesska wrote:

There are good reasons to go public, and there are good reasons to stay quiet. This is what I think: There are a few wrinkles to iron out before we start considering “coming out of the coffin”:

The main wrinkle is simply that the community isn’t yet big enough or well-organized enough to defend itself. The necessary organization will develop in due time, as the community continues to grow.

1. We need to get our own act together. We need to clearly and concisely define what is, and isn’t, a vampire. Yes, I know that this will cause rifts in the vampire community, but if we simply say “Yes, this is a vampire, but this person doesn’t have ANY of those symptoms, yet s/he is still a vampire”. That just doesn’t cut it. People don’t believe what they can’t understand, but they DEFINITELY don’t believe what they can’t simplify. And if we let the public simplify vampirism on their own, just imagine the idiotic headlines . . .

No, it is NOT necessary to define who is or isn’t a vampire in order to do public relations work. The general public simply is not going to care about the fine points of who or who isn’t a vampire, just as the general doesn’t care, for example, whether the gay community considers bisexuals to be gay.

No matter how you define “vampire,” what the general public is going to see is a bunch of blood-drinking freaks. The general public is not going to care which kinds of blood-drinkers are considered “vampires” and which aren’t, or whether certain non-blood-drinkers choose to associate themselves with the label. All these distinctions that may seem so all-important within the vampiric community are just plain irrelevant as far as the general public is concerned.

All that the general public needs to know about vampirism is the following:

(1) Most blood-drinkers seek consenting donors and do not attack or kill people.

(2) The vampiric community encourages people to be careful about disease tranmission and other physical safety issues.

(3) Lots of blood-drinkers lead otherwise normal lives and are not confined to exotic subcultures.

(4) Historically, blood-drinking isn’t all that terribly abnormal. (See Blood-drinking in historical perspective on the Tentative conclusions page on my website.)

As for psi-vampirism, there probably isn’t as much need to educate the general public about psi-vampirism as about blood-drinking, since psivamps aren’t likely to be targets of a witchhunt anyway, except among occultists. Probably, it is necessary to educate only the occult scene about psi-vampirism. There, the most important point is simply that psivamps can feed ethically.

See Social movements and the likely forthcoming witchhunt on my Social and political matters page.

Amy


franchesska
Re: To franchesska: definitions and public relations
Wed Sep 30 18:47:09 1998
I wrote:

“We need to get our own act together. We need to clearly and concisely define what is, and isn’t, a vampire.
Yes, I know that this will cause rifts in the vampire community, but if we simply say “Yes, this is a vampire, but this person doesn’t have ANY of those symptoms, yet s/he is still a vampire”, that just doesn’t cut it. People don’t believe what they can’t understand, but they DEFINITELY don’t believe what they can’t simplify. And if we let the public simplify vampirism on their own, just imagine the idiotic headlines . . .”

And Amy responded with:

“No, it is NOT necessary to define who is or isn’t a vampire in order to do public relations work. The general public simply is not going to care about the fine points of who or who isn’t a vampire, just as the general doesn’t care, for example, whether the gay community considers bisexuals to be gay . . .”

First of all, I wasn’t talking about PR work. I’ve done PR work for companies before, and these two things are TOTALLY different.

True, the public doesn’t “care” about whether the gay community considers bisexuals to be gay. But they DO care about what “gay” means.

With all the bullshit that’s been going on, we can’t even tell what “VAMPIRE” means anymore!

How are we helping people who think they’re vampires and need help, when we can’t even decide for OURSELVES what a vampire IS!

“I think I’m gay, but I’m not sure . . .”
“Are you attracted to your own sex?”
“Not at all.”
“Does the thought of liking your own sex make you sick?”
“Yes.”
“Then you’re not gay.”

To my simple brain, the consequence is that simplistic.

I know everything is MUCH more complicated than that.

I also realize I will get flamed for this, as I have from the beginning . . .

but if I can’t take criticism, I shouldn’t dish it out . . .
At least most everyone here is beginning to realize that. Amy, you are one of the most dedicated people here, and I strongly respect you for that.

Doc


Cymbelina
Vampiric Community…me like!
Thu Oct 1 11:27:25 1998
I think Amy has solved a lot of problems here. The term “Vampiric Community” is terrific, and it even includes lifestylers in a way that can make other Vampiric persons comfortable. Like Amy, I have been involved in Queer communities both politically and socially for a long time. And the parallels between the growing pains of the Queer community and the Vampiric Community are very real and apt.

Lil story from my personal life: back in University my friend Craig started up a Bisexual support group. There was already a well established Gay and Lesbian center at the school. The group was established because many bisexual men and women had experienced hostility and rejection by some of the gays and lesbians; being accused of not being able to decide; that the bisexuals were REALLY gay/lesbian but too wimpy or internally homophobic to make a decision; that the bisexuals had a choice regarding their sexual orientation and therefore did not suffer oppression in the same way; that they were just party animals who would never have to live with the social stigma of being a sexual minority. Everyone found that time and energy was being wasted on arguing over if the bisexuals belonged or not, and NO ONE’s problems regarding being a sexual “outlaw” were being addressed. The new group was formed and everyone went ahead addressing their own specialized set of problems and concerns. 🙂 Interestingly, although my sexual behavior would be considered by most people to be “straight”, Craig and some of the others asked me repeatedly to join the bisexual group. Although my behavior was exclusively heterosexual, my attitudes regarding sexuality were/are decidely not mainstream and fit in a lot better with the bisexuals/gays/lesbians than with straight people. Although I chose not to attend support group meetings (not wanting to chance yet another split and series of arguments over who belonged there) I did contribute time and support to both the group and it’s individual members.

The good news for the Vampiric community in this lil fable is that it turned out so well for all concerned. Everyone had their needs for support addressed. And the parties organized by the bisexual group were FANTASTIC; inclusive, relaxed and a celebration of differences and commonalities.

Not to close on a bummer, but would it be possible for the posters here to refrain from using the word “faggot” as an insulting term, the equivalent of “jerk” or “asshole”? I find it’s use in this manner very off-putting and offensive and when I see it used I tend to focus on this misuse of the word and thoughtless abuse of queers in general rather than what the author is trying to say.

Now, there

[Sangi note: The original post ends there.  I do not know if it actually ended, or if it got cut off when it was posted to the board. My archived version of the message board page shows the same thing, and unfortunately, the message board and posts no longer exist and as far as I know never got archived.  Chalk it up to one of Life’s Little Mysteries.]

I’m the founder/creator/page slave of Sanguinarius.org. I’m in my early-to-mid 40s. I have 2 special kitties and a good man.

More info later.

See my website, Sangi’s Corner, for more about me.

Sanguinarius E. Sanguinarius – who has written posts on Sanguinarius.org for Real Vampires.


About Sanguinarius E. Sanguinarius

I’m the founder/creator/page slave of Sanguinarius.org. I’m in my early-to-mid 40s. I have 2 special kitties and a good man. More info later. See my website, Sangi’s Corner, for more about me.
Tagged , . Bookmark the permalink.

Comments are closed.

  • Sanguinarius.org Accepts Tips

    What's the information on this page worth to you?

    Tip Sangi with Bitcoin (BTC), a new, independent international currency. Buy her a cup of coffee, lunch, or a pair of jeans...or heck, be really generous and help her buy a new and decent computer!